can i do three sub-I’s before interview-time all in nsg at different places to maximize face-time with their school?

sure, i did.

some people did four.  be careful, though, as sub-i’s are very difficult months.  i was burnt out by my third one.

I did 3 (one being at my home institution, if that counts).  You will be so burnt out by the third (i was), that I didnt even care anymore.  It can be done, but I would really consider what you are doing.  Sub-i’s can help, and they can also hurt.  I really wanted to go to a place that I did my third sub-i (the one where I was burnt out), and didnt match there.  i ended up matching at a place that i didnt rotate at, and am completely happy.

Like Kenny said as well, they are usually during the months of completing your CAS application, etc, and that can be hard when you are trying to work your a$$ off with sub-is.  If you do one in Oct, then interviews start.....

Like the above people said, I too did 3 (first at home, 2 away) in a row, and i was very burnt out by the end. be careful not to hurt your chances by appearing tired, which may be perceived as uninterested. consder taking a month off in between 2 + 3, and then doing the 3rd. For example, do June, July, BS easy rotation, then the last one in September.

I did 4 sub-I’s, three away and one at home. 

I think one home rotation, and one to two away rotation is all one can do to avoid becoming too burned out.  There’s only a few prime months in the MS4 year to do your neurosurgery aways, generally in the early to late summer months.  By fall, you’re either burnt out or you’re scrambling to get your application in.  Either case, sub-Is in the fall result in late letter of recs.

What month do you recommend your last sub-I should be?

Are my options basically June, July, August, September, or is september too late?  I like what a previous poster did and have an in-between easy rotation (august) but if september is too late then I’m thinking just do all three in the beginning.

Your thoughts?

my last was in october.  here’s what i did:

june: home sub-i.
july: neuroradiology
august: neurology
sept & oct: two sub-i’s
and then straight into interviews.

though i think these days, interviews start much earlier than they used to.

I did 3 also, my last was in October. It didn’t conflict with any interviews, but it’s been a few years, and like Kenny said, the interview trail seems to start earlier every year. I would echo the ‘3 max’ sentiment here. By the end of that one I was really sick of trying to look good, and getting really preoccupied with booking travel for interviews.

I did:

July - step 2 study/exam (2 weeks) and sub-i (2 weeks)
August - home sub-i
Sept - ER
Oct - away sub-i
Nov - anesthesia (home by 9am most days, or interviewing)
Dec - vacation/interviews

The rest of the year is kind of a blur, but I think I was hanging out with friends and drinking a lot. And I did an international elective for 2 months at the end.

okay, let me rephrase

kenny and dr. hfuhruhurr, when is the absolute LATEST month you’d suggest for doing a sub-I @ OHSU/wherever hfurhruhurr is?  it would be pointless to do one after interview invites are out, right?

Here is my current plan:

mid-March=Gross Neuropathology (Medical Examiner) (2wks)
April=Clinical Neuropathology (3wks)
May=Neuroradiology (3wks)
June=Neurosurgery Clerkship (2wks) (required at my institution, packaged as 6wk clerkship w/Neurology+Opth)
July=Neurosurgery AI AWAY (4wks)
Aug=Neurosurgery Mini-Away (2wks) (different program than 4wk AI)

Is it important to do the one 4wk AI, or would it be better to break it up into two 2wk AI’s, for a total of 3 two-week AI’s at three different programs (plus my required Nsurg clerkship at my home program).

Do the electives leading up to the Neurosurgery Clerkship seem appropriate, or should I try and use the extra time for more away rotations?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

praying - 09 June 2007 06:32 PM

okay, let me rephrase

kenny and dr. hfuhruhurr, when is the absolute LATEST month you’d suggest for doing a sub-I @ OHSU/wherever hfurhruhurr is?  it would be pointless to do one after interview invites are out, right?

it wouldn’t necessarily be pointless to do one after you interview.  applicants will often spend time out here after they interview as a “2nd look,” spending anywhere from one to seven days on service. 

it would be pointless to do one after our rank list meeting, which is usually in january, though i suspect it will be later this year because of the later match date.

Kenny Liu - 08 February 2007 06:16 AM

sure, i did.

some people did four.  be careful, though, as sub-i’s are very difficult months.  i was burnt out by my third one.

I have a question about “burn out” for those who’s experienced Sub-Is

Do people usually work 7 days/week without any day off during Sub-Is? or do we get about 1-2 days off each week? Does “burn out” mean you get physically tired and unable work anymore or just mental state of being tired of doing months after months of Sub-Is?

Thank you.

Shanna - 09 April 2009 12:27 PM

Kenny Liu - 08 February 2007 06:16 AM

sure, i did.

some people did four.  be careful, though, as sub-i’s are very difficult months.  i was burnt out by my third one.

I have a question about “burn out” for those who’s experienced Sub-Is

Do people usually work 7 days/week without any day off during Sub-Is? or do we get about 1-2 days off each week? Does “burn out” mean you get physically tired and unable work anymore or just mental state of being tired of doing months after months of Sub-Is?

Thank you.

You generally work as much as you want. I didn’t take any days off.

By burnout people mean once the novelty wears off, you stop caring and stop being interested and instead, you’ll just be mostly tired.

N3UR05UR930N - 09 April 2009 04:01 PM

Shanna - 09 April 2009 12:27 PM

Kenny Liu - 08 February 2007 06:16 AM

sure, i did.

some people did four.  be careful, though, as sub-i’s are very difficult months.  i was burnt out by my third one.

I have a question about “burn out” for those who’s experienced Sub-Is

Do people usually work 7 days/week without any day off during Sub-Is? or do we get about 1-2 days off each week? Does “burn out” mean you get physically tired and unable work anymore or just mental state of being tired of doing months after months of Sub-Is?

Thank you.

You generally work as much as you want. I didn’t take any days off.

By burnout people mean once the novelty wears off, you stop caring and stop being interested and instead, you’ll just be mostly tired.

Thanks for the reply.

What I’m trying to ask is that, is it physically doable to do 4 months of Sub-Is one after another? Or is it unrealistic to keep being enthusiastic and to be involved for such long time?

4 months may be a bit much if you really keep crazy hours, but may be OK if you pace yourself - take a day off each week to recharge. Note however, the culture at some programs does not permit this. Programs with lots of sub-Is will usually mean you get at least 1 day off each weekend, as there can only be so many on call at at time. Probably better to go home and sleep (you are unlikely to be missed if others are around) than to be falling asleep or appearing uniterested. Also, part of the goal of a sub-I is to learn. You learn much better if you are not totally exhausted. If you look after yourself, I think 4 months is doable, and not unlike what residency will be like. For those who are trying to break records on each of their sub-Is, 4 months would probably be unrealistic. If I wanted to maintain a prolonged presence in the hospital (eg covering weekends between groups of students, etc), I sometimes slipped out of the OR in the afternoon and claimed a call room for a few hours. Was never missed. Helped keep the energy going through the night… and the next day, if needed. To recycle some other previously divulged insights:

http://uncleharvey.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/978/
http://uncleharvey.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/1571/

Thanks for the advice. I will take what you guys said into consideration and try to make a more realistic schedule.