Yes, we’ve all read them, poor directionless would-be applicants posting on UH trying to figure out whether or not they have a chance of either getting into neurosurgery at all, or getting into a specific program or caliber of programs. I have also had numerous emails and PMs from future applicants inquiring regarding necessary credentials…

Given the net wealth of experience within the Uncle Harvey readership, and the critically bored state of most current 4th years, I propose that we come up with a centralized repository of real-life applications, and how they fared, so that future applicants can review these, and accordingly plan to make necessary adjustments to their CVs, and/or apply to appropriate tiers and numbers of programs. We all know the 260 AOA 12 pubs PhD who applied to 80 programs, because she just wasn’t sure if she was competitive, and the 225, one 4th author, “but I’m from ____ school”, who applies to the 4 top progams, and wonders why he didn’t match. A repository of anonymous applicants’ stats and how they fared could provide a useful reality check for those trying to navigate the process.

Eg: So you did or did not have a Step 1 of XXX, n publications in _____ journals as X’th author, +/- AOA, and honors in ____, but failed ____. You speak 3 languages, have a masters in ___, and a black belt in ____, but have ____ immigration status. You did sub-Is at ____, and got letters from ____. You submitted xx applications and got interviews at A, B, and C, but not D and E....

3 Questions:

1) Would this type of information be useful?
2) If yes, how would it be best arranged? Open WIKI with anonymous login for people to post a brief synopsis of their qualifications and their subsequent interview invites/rejections? Google docs spreadsheet format? A system where people can email their CVs and interview invites to a central curator who would personally compile, analyze and post while maintaining strict confidentiality? Free-for all post your stats using the anonymous login (see 2009 rank list WIKI) below in this thread? Other?
3) Would anyone contribute? Well, we would have to wait and see. Hopefully we would have at least a couple of people at different points on the competitiveness spectrum (perhaps most importantly, including some less competitive applicants) who collectively could provide useful insight to future applicants...?

Thoughts? ideas? flying eggs? rotten tomatoes?

While you’re thinking about how to do this, here are my stats. Use them as you see fit.

- MD/PhD from midwest public university
- PhD in Neuroscience - thesis fairly relevant to neurosurgery
- AOA
- USMLE Step1: 248
- ~10 publications (most basic science), incl four 1st author
- Multiple research / graduate school awards, including small grants, travel awards, graduate honor society, etc.
- 2 away rotations at top tier programs in addition to my home sub-I. Honors for all 3.
- Letters from chairs of 3 neurosurgery departments (from each sub-I) and 2 PhD research PIs.
- Honors for 1st 2 years of medical school, and for all clinical rotations, except neurology and pediatrics (excellent)
- Extracurricular activities, including semi-professional musician, member on university committees, community education events, photography, etc.
- Foreign born, non-US citizen, with US green card.
- Nice guy who gets along well with people (apparently, per letters and rotation comments)

I applied to 51 programs and received 49 interview invitations - Wait-listed at Michigan, and rejected from MGH, but received invitations from BWH, UCSF, Stanford, UVA, Cleveland clinic, Wash U, U Wash, Northwestern, Barrow, Pitt, Penn, etc. I should note that some invitations I did not receive initially. I was in the second wave of invitations at UCSF, U wash, Northwestern, Columbia.

Did 2nd looks at 3 programs.

Matched at #1 (one that I had done a second look, but not sub-I)

Ha, you apply to only 51 programs with an application like that and hope to match?

This a wonderful idea! Thanks from a second year medical student and hopeful future neurosurgical applicant.

omnineuro - 02 March 2009 04:52 AM

Ha, you apply to only 51 programs with an application like that and hope to match?

More people might post if we avoid making fun of them - even if anonymous. Everyone is going through this for the first time. They might make more appropriate decisions if they know / had known what to expect. I think we will all admit the whole process is kind of unnerving, to say the least…

Who’s making fun? Relax, just a little. The lists are in, take a deep breath.

Education:
- MD/PhD from Stanford
- PhD in Biophysics - thesis not at all relevant to neurosurgery
- no AOA offered at school
- Step 1 - good enough
- Step 2 - not yet
- 1 away rotation in addition to home sub-I: UCSF

Research:
- 9 peer-reviewed papers, four 1st author, all basic science
- 2 neurosurgically-related book chapters

Extracurriculars:
- Co-founded 3 medical device start-up companies, BD position at another
- Leadership positions in various volunteer/religious organizations
- 3 kids

Application:
- US citizen
- Letters from 2 chairmen, 2 program directors, 1 PhD advisor
- applied to 36 programs
- received 34 interview invitations (axed by Penn and Utah).
- interviewed at 14 - UCSF, Stanford, Hopkins, Columbia, Brigham, MGH, UVA, Northwestern, Baylor, Barrow, USC, Michigan, OHSU, Mayo

Post-hoc:
- Unsolicited calls from multiple faculty and residents at 4 programs
- Notified chairman at #1,2 by email with reciprocation, follow-up with calls to would-be chiefs to reinforce
- Matched at #1

Strong application. Low step 1 score as possible explanation for why no Utah or Penn interviews?

Keep in mind that strong applications can’t get interviewed everywhere. This process is arbitrary at times, so there doesn’t have to be a reason. Maybe they thought the applicant wasn’t genuinely interested in their program or wouldn’t come to their state. 34/36 and 49/51 are impressive stats.

The nature of this data is too personal to make anonymity even remotely possible, but I definitely think it is a good idea.  Suck up your pride and let it all hang out.  Consider it a gift to humanity that you would have very much liked to receive.

Ugh.  Maybe you outliers could wait to post until some people with average stats put theirs up.  In fact, I’d offer my own, but I can’t remember my username and password.  So either I have to post as me, or I may never be able to log in as jb again. 

Well, if I happen to be at another computer in the next couple of weeks, I’ll do it from there.

jb - 02 March 2009 06:49 AM

Ugh.  Maybe you outliers could wait to post until some people with average stats put theirs up.  In fact, I’d offer my own, but I can’t remember my username and password.  So either I have to post as me, or I may never be able to log in as jb again. 

Well, if I happen to be at another computer in the next couple of weeks, I’ll do it from there.

Everyone can use this anonymous login:

Name: ranklist09
Password: rankme#1

It is important that this not be an opportunity simply for strong applicants to strut their stuff. Normal people can and do match in neurosurgery. This is the place to prove it.

2009app - 02 March 2009 06:21 AM

Strong application. Low step 1 score as possible explanation for why no Utah or Penn interviews?

I think step 1 scores would be very helpful to post

There is a thread like this from last year that people submitted after the match had occurred, so you could see if they matched or did not, and, if so, where on their rank list they matched.  It might be helpful as well.

http://uncleharvey.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/774/P0/

Honors in all preclinical courses but 1st sem pathology and then Honors in all 3rd yr clerkships
StepI >260
StepII >270
AOA
Only 1 pub (1st author)..working on 2 more (one 1st author, and the other 3rd author)
Attend what most would say is a “middle of the road” medical school although I’ve loved my time here
Recc letters from my chair and PD and the chairmen of the 2 programs I rotated at.

Applied to 30, got interviews at 26 (rejected from MGH, JHU, UCSF, Cleveland Clinic) Got invites from Mayo, UWashington, Stanford, BNI, Emory, Duke, Penn, Columbia, USC, UCLA, Northwestern, WUSTL, amongst others. 

Matched at top-tier program

Education:
- MD/PhD from west coast private universities
- PhD in Chemistry; postdoc in Cell Biology and Neuroscience
- no AOA offered at school
- STEP 1 and 2 Scores: good enough
- no honors or rankings offered at my school
- 1 away rotation in addition to home sub-I, one east coast, one west coast

Research:
- 15 peer-reviewed papers, four 1st author, 2 senior author, 4 clinical
- 4 neurosurgically-related book chapters

Extracurriculars:
- Martial Arts and other sports
- Super-model hot looks

Application:
- US citizen
- Letters from 2 chairmen NSG, 1 chairman basic science, 1 division head
- applied to 17 programs
- received 15 interview invitations (axed by Penn and Duke).
- interviewed at 11
- ranked 7

Post-hoc:
- Unsolicited calls from multiple faculty and residents at 5 programs
- Notified chairman at #1,2,3 by email