I never said that it was a “measly” 40k. I never insinuated that everyone was made of money. And I never said that they are “the BEST four years”. I did not say that partying is the best part of college. If you think that is the thesis of the post then you missed the message. For the majority of people who enter medical school a four year degree is a good investment. If a 6 year student came to the neurosurgery lab that I have worked in for 3 years now (which I found during my “wasted” university experience) that person would be turned away because they lack skills that you will not get in a 6 year BS/MD program. Outside of biological sciences and clinical science you will have very little outside experience that can be brought to the table for both research and clinical. You will have no engineering or technical experience, no matter what the admissions people at those programs tell you. If you think that these things are not beneficial to neurosurgeons you are sadly mistaken. Again - you have your whole life to be a neurosurgeon. You have very little time to be a young, energetic adult with infinite possibility. I have several friends who initially thought and you did and would have missed out on interesting opportunities to expand themselves before medical school (ex: getting an MPH from Oxford, getting a masters abroad, taking time off to do research for its own sake). They were reluctant for all the same reasons you are: money and time. One of the paths to happiness is to live without regret. It is a much heavier burden than debt that you WILL be able to pay off if you live reasonably. A cursory understanding of economics would tell us that the impending inflation that our nation is about to undergo makes a debt load today significantly easier to carry than you believe.

If a school’s mission is not to train neurosurgeons and they do not have a residency program (it does not look like Howard does, although their site is down so who knows) then this is a clear disadvantage.

And again, work in undergrad research can easily translate to meaningful med school research. This is not always easy to work out, but for some people it can be a strong aspect of an application if the research carries through into med school and turns into publications above and beyond the typical poster and small authorship paper.

Hey Xelb, some people love college, some people don’t, if you feel strongly that you wouldn’t like it then I totally get why you wouldn’t want to pay extra for it.  What I think most of the people responding to your post are trying to tell you is that if you aren’t careful you could close a lot of doors and/or make it much harder for yourself to match into neurosurgery (or anything else that is competitive to get into).  As Galen pointed out, only 1 person from Howard has matched into neurosurgery in the last several years.  I think that you need to do some soul searching and decide if your goal is to get an M.D. for the lowest dollar amount possible (which doesn’t necessarily mean BS/MD), or to achieve a different goal such as become a neurosurgeon and then plan accordingly.  Good Luck!

"Again - you have your whole life to be a neurosurgeon. You have very little time to be a young, energetic adult with infinite possibility. “

Exactly which is why if your young entering residency, you will probably be more motivated, energetic, and idealistic neurosurgeon. You can pursue many more fellowship, business, academic opportunities without worry about financial stress, marriage, etc.

Once you start med school your desire and free time to do these things will plummet. I am not in residency but I can imagine that this only gets worse, it is certainly that way through most of med school. My experience with neurosurgeons right now has shown to me that once you are an attending who is trying to spend time your significant other, work out, socialize, do research all without the protection of the 80/88 hour restriction that even the couple of years you “save” doesn’t earn you any extra energy or drive to do more. This drive is largely personal and irrespective of age.

The poster’s question was will the BS/MD hurt him professionally/match wise and the answer is most likely less. He will be significantly less qualified to do many different kinds of research which require technical knowledge and will have less time to perform research during medical school due to the truncated schedule. In my mind that is the biggest problem, more-so than fewer match applicants. If the OP doesn’t care about entering academics or a top flight residency and is set on doing the 6 year program than he should go for it. If the main concern is money then he doesn’t realize how getting a quality education can be done while living frugally and applying for scholarships and low interest loans. You don’t have to go an ivy to get a great residency and you don’t have to be the poster child of med school debt by finishing with >$250k in loans. If you play your cards right, do great research, work hard and find an advocate with personal/professional connections at the programs that you want to apply to then you can get a good spot wherever you come from and for a bargain. Once he enters this program there are no real mulligans. He could pull out of the 6 year program before starting the med school years but I am guessing this will not look positive to most adcoms. If you screw up med school then you have screwed up residency.

The absolute WORST outcome from this plan is failing to match the first time around after the six year program. Any debt that you have incurred will not be given forbearance and you will have to start servicing the debt. That one extra year of extremely low income coupled with trying to pay off the debt will immediately negate all the upside to this plan. You will then have to reapply (there goes another $10k), live off a low paying research position salary and hope that your chances improve (not too terribly likely). Is this situation possible? Absolutely yes. Is it probable? Who knows.

Give the OP a break. He simply asked whether or not enrolling a BS/MD program would hurt his chances in getting into NS, rather than some pseudo intellectual psycho-babbled preaching about what makes one happy in life. And besides, you do not need a degree in engineering to become a great neurosurgeon or researcher for that matter. Recalling some of the greatest breakthrough in this field, such as VP shunt, Gamma knife, are made possible through the cooperation between neurosurgeons and other experts.

Whatever med school you come from will not make your or break you, but some will make your life inconvenient. Choose the school with cutting edge research facilities, by looking at how many papers a lab produces annually and how high, so that you can get some decent papers out before graduation. Also, it doesn’t hurt if the school has a NS department that allows you to establish some connection and insight on what this is all about. 

Cheers

So I just wanted to update. I was accepted into a B.S./M.D. program with the West Virginia University School of Medicine. It is an 8-year program, so I have time to go through college with very little stress. Thankfully, the WVU School of Medicine has a Neurosurgery department as well as a residency program. Yes, I’m still interested in Neurosurgery because, simply put, the brain is unlike any other organ, but of course I will explore my options when I start my rotations in approximately six years.

Thanks for all of the help everybody!

P.S. I was also accepted into the B.S./D.O. program with NYCOM, so this was a tough choice to make...mainly for location reasons. I’m glad to say that I went with the M.D., however.

Congrats Xelb, I think you made the right decision. Keep up the good work

Have fun in college, work hard, watch football, get a girlfriend or two (or more), study abroad, and just enjoy the college experience. Med school is a tough road so getting some good life experience is invaluable. I did the 8-year BS/MD route myself and I’m very glad I didnt do a 7 year or a 6 year program simply because I’d have missed out on a lot of great friends, traveling, research, wonderful classes and professors, and even my fiance!