In the upcoming weeks, I have some second looks at a few programs. Can anyone comment on what typically takes place at a second look.

Just come and see what a real day is like at the program.  Usually the pleasantries of interview day are gone, and you can really see how the residents work and interact with the attendings, and see if you really like the tone of the program.

Remember, the second look is for you—not for you to inch up your way on the programs’ rank list.  It really can only hurt you—if you piss off residents or attendings during your second look.

Using it to check out one of the programs i’m interested in, but people have called “malignant”, whatever that means. Easy to sugar coat on interviews, but hoping it’s tough when it’s business as usual.

I’ve done a couple and found them to be extremely helpful. My feeling is that, short of a full rotation, a second look with a program can give you a pretty decent sense of the day-to-day lives of its residents, even if you can only spend a couple days on service. My goal is to spend time with my top 4-5 programs in the form of either a sub-I or a second look; I don’t believe that I personally would feel comfortable ranking a program highly without knowing “what it’s really like.”

Re: the OP’s question (what to expect), both of mine were quite laid back and enjoyable. The faculty and residents were very welcoming--the program had already demonstrated interest by interviewing me, and I showed continued interest in return by scheduling a second look… I rounded with the residents, bounced between several OR’s, saw a few consults/admissions, wandered around the hospital, etc. I understandably wasn’t able to scrub at either institution. I did not sense that there was any sugar-coating whatsoever, only a few residents knew I was coming in advance and many faculty didn’t know who I was until I introduced myself.

I was told specifically by several in a program that I did a 2nd look at that I jumped up on the rank list because of the visit. If you have a good personality and people enjoy working with you then it can only help you in my opinion. However, I do think the primary purpose is by far for you to learn as much as you can about what the program is really like.

Mark - 02 January 2010 06:56 PM

Just come and see what a real day is like at the program.  Usually the pleasantries of interview day are gone, and you can really see how the residents work and interact with the attendings, and see if you really like the tone of the program.

Remember, the second look is for you—not for you to inch up your way on the programs’ rank list.  It really can only hurt you—if you piss off residents or attendings during your second look.

not sure i 100% agree that it can only hurt the applicant. a focused second look can help, if well done. in our selection meeting, we always mention people that show continued interest through the interview season. if they’ve sent follow-up letters, or visited for a 2nd look, it expresses a particular interest on the part of the applicant.

if i were applying again, i would consider a single day (or half day) at my TOP program. I would ensure ahead of time that the program director or chair was in town that day before scheduling the trip, and have the admin secretary arrange for a 30-second ‘hello’ during that visit. i wouldn’t expect them to make any special time for you, necessarily. but, if you walked with chair between his/her appointments and expressed your sincere interest in his/her program, that would be really stand out.

here’s how i would do it. arrange w/ the admin a one day visit. spend the day on the right hip of the chief resident (in OR or clinic or where ever). give your number to the admin and have her call you during the day when the chair/pd has 5 min’s between appointments/cases. break out to shake hands w/ the chair/ pd, then finish out your day w/ the chief resident before heading home.

obviously not required, and yes, you can certainly match your TOP program on the merits of your interview or externship alone. but, if you feel that you need an extra boost, i’d consider a second look