Im a MS4 student. Right now, I can still hang out with my friends, have a party sometimes and do some of the things I like if I get orgnaized.

My question is: after all I ve heard Im I right to think that as a NS Resident you dont do anything but neurosurgery? Do you have at least some free time.What can you do and what will you never be able to do?  Does it get harder and more demandign from the first to the last year?

Thanks for your comments

It’s a big change from M4 to intern, and another big step to pgy-2. You’ll also have a lot less energy to do stuff in your time off. The chief year is tough too, and most programs lighten up a bit through the middle, especially if you go to a lab. This is at least partly because you become much more efficient and can work smarter. If you have a lot of friends outside the medical field, you may well grow apart because they really don’t understand what your life is like and how difficult it is. Again, do fun stuff now, because you won’t be able to create lots of 4-day weekends and 3-week vacations for a long time.

Did any of you go through residency with a wife and kids? If so, how was that? Extremely difficult or better than expected?

i got married early in residency and had a kid during one of our toughest years.  it was definitely very difficult and everyone has to make compromises for it to work, but it’s definitely doable.  the amount of support i get from the two is also amazing; it’s been really hard but i wouldn’t have had it any other way.

How about call? Are you familiar with programs (if not your own) that allow residents to take call from home at some point (provided they live within a certain distance of the hospital and that there is a lower level on site)?

Vandy has home call from PGY-2 on. The residents stack non-emergent consults until morning. I questioned the standard of care in this system when I interviewed, but the residents there love it, and claim to spend the majority of the night at home because of their awesome computer system. Most programs are “home call” after the junior years, but how much you are actually at home versus the hospital while on call is variable.

Thanks! Guys do you know about home-call for other programs?

Also, will I be putting my wife and daughters through an unbearable experience and become the loser absentee father/husband everyone’s warning me about?

kraney - from your previous posts, i would have never thought you were a father!  congrats!

If Kenny did it with his wife, and a baby in the first year of his life, I think he’s trying to say it’s doable.  Is it an unbearable experience?  I don’t think it’ll be pleasant, and if your daughtes/wife could choose, they’d rather not, but you’re shooting for your dreams and in the end your wife will understand, and with time, your daughters probably will too.

I am not a resident yet; I observe the residents at my program and take call with them once a month to get a feel for it.  That’s my impression.  Personally, I know the kind of person I am; i’m selfish, a bit self-centered, and unwavering in my beliefs.  ‘when things get stressful, i lose concern for others, and focus only on myself and how to get through it.
I know it’s a negative, but it’s a characteristic of mine that I’ve no desire to change, because i still get along with the residents and attendings and classmates just fine, i can work in a team, etc.  and being like that helps me get things done.  with a wife, it would be a disaster.  So as far as that’s concerned, i’m putting that on hold till after residency is over (i’m quite young).

not everyone can be a neurosurgeon.  hell, not every medical student can be a neurosurgeon.  and not every neurosurgeon can get through it while maintaining a family.  it’s clearly doable, but is it in you is the question.  the guys in my program all do it; the one girl doesn’t.

Much appreciated Praying...and again best of luck (I’m sure we’ll meet on the trail man).

Kraney - 09 April 2007 03:47 PM

Thanks! Guys do you know about home-call for other programs?

You’ll have to watch out, because a lot of programs will sell their home call as a benefit, but when you realize that they have to drive to each different hospital they cover at night, then stay “post-call” as a normal day, it gets brutal.  We wouldn’t be able to do such a thing at our hospital (I once got 16 admissions overnight 6p-6a, though the average runs 5-8), so we have a night-float system with one resident always in house S-Th, and two in house Fri and Sat.

The home-call at Hopkins though appears to work very well for their midlevel residents.

Thanks Mark.

Like these guys said, the home call can be a real mixed blessing. Among other things, when it’s busy, your wife will be waking up every time the beeper goes off. Don’t underestimate the power that has to put her in a bad mood.

Where are you in the process? Applying this year? How old are your kids?

I would generally recommend against NS for people with kids who are school-age or older. This isn’t because it can’t be done, but just my philosophy that kids need their parents, and NS residency is never easy. You should also be really honest with yourself about the quality of your marriage. If your wife is behind you 100% and doesn’t ever waver or have doubts, you should be OK. She will waver and have doubts during residency, but your marriage will survive. If there is any doubt now, your marriage will deteriorate to the point of divorce long before you finish. A lot of people underestimate the damage that accrues to a marriage when one of the partners goes through a 7 year residency. It’s significant, but not irreparable if both people are really committed to each other.

I don’t want to scare you, but I hope you will really think about this stuff. I’ve seen friends going through divorces early on in residency because they don’t ask these questions. If you’re in a shaky marriage without kids, follow your heart but realize that NS and your marriage will probably not coexist. If your marriage is shaky and you have kids, for their sake, do something else and preserve your family. Your kids won’t be proud of you if they only get to visit 2 weekends a month. And besides, your NS salary becomes an FP salary for you and the same for your ex-wife.

Hey Dr. Hfuh, I’m applying this year (June) and my daughters will be 15 months and 2 months in July. I’m blessed to have an extremely supportive and independent wife along with the support of my family. I absolutely dread the idea of being an absentee father, but a day will come when I reflect on the choices I made in my late 20’s as a man in my early 30’s. For me it’s imperative that I do something I love. Are you suggesting I find another career path (I have no problem if you are because I’m extremely appreciative of your watchful eye)? This will be a job for all of us someday, and I’ve always wanted to tell myself that I had the coolest job in the world...what else even compares Hfuh???

Kraney - 19 April 2007 02:58 PM

Hey Dr. Hfuh, I’m applying this year (June) and my daughters will be 15 months and 2 months in July. I’m blessed to have an extremely supportive and independent wife along with the support of my family. I absolutely dread the idea of being an absentee father, but a day will come when I reflect on the choices I made in my late 20’s as a man in my early 30’s. For me it’s imperative that I do something I love. Are you suggesting I find another career path (I have no problem if you are because I’m extremely appreciative of your watchful eye)? This will be a job for all of us someday, and I’ve always wanted to tell myself that I had the coolest job in the world...what else even compares Hfuh???

I’m not saying you shouldn’t do it at all. That advice is more for the people with 5-10 year olds when they start. Their kids wind up being teenagers in households that are basically ‘single-mother’ in nature. In general, that’s an age when girls are more likely to get pregnant and boys in trouble with the law, if there’s no dad in the house.

But remember your toddler is going to be in 3rd grade or so when you finish. You just wind up missing a lot of birthdays and Saturdays at the park. If your wife is behind you completely and your family can be close by, it’s definitely doable. Think about scouting out programs that are lighter on hours versus the heavy academic places. At the interviews, see who has kids and talk to them about it.

Will do for sure, thanks man.