Ask away...we have completed this chapter of our journey.
I wish we had this website when my Husband was a resident.

One of my wife’s biggest qualms about me choosing NS as a career is that I won’t have time to have kids and a family life. While I know residency training will be time consuming, I’m convinced it is possible to maintain some balance. So I’m eager to hear, what worked for you? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks

Anonymous User - 17 January 2008 07:30 PM

Ask away...we have completed this chapter of our journey.
I wish we had this website when my Husband was a resident.

Are you an MD as well? If not (and this might be hard to answer without the actual experience), do you think it was easier or harder than if you had both been MDs (not both in NSGY, but both at least in medicine)? Hope that question makes sense…

wow thats awesome and encouraging to hear. I am an ms4 soon to be matched hopefully and also possibly soon to be engaged. im nervous about the prospect of maintaining a good marriage, im not worried about working hard. i am fine with it but more worried about my mate not being happy with her life bc of it. am i subjecting her to a life of loneliness and sadness? sometimes i wonder if i would be doing her a favor not asking her to marry me knowing that she may be happier with someone who would be more available...any tips/insights from the OP’s perspective?

What are your thoughts on your husband having mistresses?  Cushing had his harem…

Please disregard any disrespectful comments.  At any rate, my wife and I would love to here about your experience of managing a family life along with neurosurgery residency and kids.  Like some of the other posters said, I have no problems with the work.  I anticipate the hard part is finding a balance between the two.  Thanks.

mhazzard - 18 January 2008 03:06 AM

One of my wife’s biggest qualms about me choosing NS as a career is that I won’t have time to have kids and a family life. While I know residency training will be time consuming, I’m convinced it is possible to maintain some balance. So I’m eager to hear, what worked for you? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks

I’m not the original poster--I’m another NS’s wife. We’ve been married since before med school (he’s now a resident), and we have a kid.

My husband is an amazing dad.  He spends as much time as he can with our son--frankly, more than I remember my dad spending with me on a regular basis when I was growing up, and my dad was a 9-5er.  I think it’s a matter of prioritization.  My husband knows he’s got to make the most of the free time he has, so he does.  Yeah, our kiddo doesn’t see him as much as kids with 9-5er dads, but we make a real point not to make my husband’s schedule seem “weird,” so that our kid doesn’t feel like he is somehow being deprived.  I also make it a point not to complain about my husband’s hours, so our son doesn’t feel like I resent his dad.  And we make adjustments: for example, our son goes to bed much later than kids his age (and sleeps later--we are usually rushing out the door in the morning), so that he stands a better chance of seeing his dad that day.  We live in an apartment, not a house with a yard, so we can live close to the hospital and reduce wasted commute time.  We sometimes go to the hospital to bring Dad dinner or to grab dinner together at the hospital.  You just make it work.  You have to be flexible--this ain’t gonna be “Leave It to Beaver,” so get over that notion quickly.  But it can be fun and funny, too: my kid announced to his teacher the other day that he had to get some “ibuprofen” because “his frontal lobe” hurt. 

Other than that, my thoughts, for whatever they’re are worth:

1.  Marry an independent woman.  I don’t mean emotionally independent (as in a cold fish)--I mean self-reliant.  She should not look to you to fulfill her every need and desire.  If her self-image is based on what you think of her at any given minute, and she needs you to endless assure her that she’s important and special, you’re sunk.  Even if you think it, you won’t have the time to convey it.  She should be the kind of woman that says, “Man, I am so sorry that you’ve got to miss the part tonight.  That sucks.  I’ll miss you and give you a page when I get home.” If she’s the kind of girl that will refuse to go to the party without you--or worse, go but spend the whole night bitching to her girlfriends about your hours--that’s a big problem, for both of you.

2.  Marry a woman who forgives easily and forgets even more quickly.  Seriously, you’re screwed if she’s the kind of girl who holds a grudge, because you are going to disappoint her in a lot of ways over the course of residency.

3.  Marry a woman who likes having sex with you, even when you haven’t said four words to her in three days and you’ve come home post-call horny but also greasy from scrub-hat hair.  And vaguely smelling of OR soap.

4.  Marry a woman who actually wants to be married to a NS.  This is different than a woman who wants to be able to tell everyone that her husband is a NS.  She should be on-aboard with the fact that your professional career will require many sacrifices by both of you. And with the fact that her sacrifices are going to be unglamorous and distinctly “unliberated"--she’ll do most of the housework, childrearing, etc.  If she’s going to get bent out of shape that you aren’t doing you’re “fair share” of the laundry, you’ll both be miserable.  And the laundry will mildew.

If you’re single, you can do NS by yourself.  If you’re married, you can’t.  It’s a team effort.  She should take pride in your dedication and sacrifices, not be relentlessly angry.  Her entire life should not revolve around the phrase “when you’re done with residency” because what that really means is “when our lives will be SO MUCH BETTER!!” But the fact is, to a large degree, it doesn’t get a lot better--you’ll never be a dermatologist who gets off at 4pm and never has an overnight emergency, while making $600K a year.  You may make more money after residency, but you’ll always work long hours and you’ll always ignore about half her pages.

5.  Marry a woman who prefers poverty over debt in the short-term.  If you can scrape by during residency, it will be worth it.  If she wants to be a “doctor’s wife” the second you get your MD framed, you’ll either have to go into debt (big debt) or she’ll be gravely disappointed.

Once you’ve married her…

Worship the ground she walks on.  Seriously.  Tell her, often, how incredible she is and how much you appreciate her.  Tell her how you couldn’t do it without her.  And make efforts to tangibly show this, too.  I’m not talking about gifts.  It’s little things--return her pages when you can.  Promptly, even if it’s just to say that you’re stuck in a case but you’ll give her a call when you’re scrubbed out.  Don’t snap at her like you snap at the nurses.  (She’s not your damn OR scrub girl.) Spend your free time with her, not on the golf course with your buddies.  Also, TALK TO HER about what you do.  Tell her about the glioblastoma or how you fell asleep while standing up in the OR or how you got your head ripped off by some as$hole attending.  She can’t know what you’re going through if you don’t talk to her about it.  Don’t forget to make her your partner in the whole experience, so she can know you better.

Kudos! This is one hell of an advice. Thnx!

Will you marry me ?

What about married to NS husbands?  We’re not all males on this site.

I am often asked, “Why or what made my Husband choose this profession?”...I never had a really good response till now.
It chose him.

I recall the times he would return home and wonder why he was doing this to himself, then he would be up and out the door by 5-5:30am the next day. He never has trouble waking up for work, till this day-even if he has a late case the night before. We know realize, residency is the foundation and it can and does get better. Expect grueling hours, lots of scut, even politics.

I meet my Husband when he was an intern, we got married his 2nd year and welcomed our first child that September. It was a typical NS resident meets girl in hospital-ends up married with children in a few months. I then discovered, his chairman was on his FOURTH marriage, as for fellow residents, I believe there are three of us still on marriage #1. The statistics speak for themselves. We witnessed lots of infidelity, divorce. It was a bit concerning, yet motivating, I was not going to be that spouse, and my Husband does not want to pay alimony X’s three! I actually, complain that he calls me too much now! Can you imagine having time to call your spouse during the day? Here’s what worked for us.

One hour. It didn’t matter if he worked a 24-36hr shift, into the night case, trauma. For one hour, he was awake and spending “quality” time with us.
He would sleep on the couch or floor and the kids would play around him( I have photos to support this). For young kids, Dad was still around.
I never paged him, unless, it was a true emergency.
We ALWAYS talked work at home, I knew everything from patients, cases, conflicts, and who’s sleeping with who.
I remember things from residency, he does not(he says he’s blocking it out-the painful years)
It’s nice to remind him of situations or cases, that relate to the present.
We were not friends with fellow residents on a social level, rather cordial. It’s a competitive profession, one resident used “delay tactics” so he could scrub in on the aneurysm case-that should have been ours!
By his fourth year, I was invaluable to him. He would call, in a hushed tone and tell me a case that he was excited about or some drama that went down in the dept, then abruptly hang up in my ear! We merged into this team. I was his sounding board, advisor, best friend. We decide to have another “resident baby”. We welcomed a little girl, while he was in the lab for his 5th year.
We did things simple, it was for us, and about us. Anytime available was utilized to the max, I never asked him to take care of things outside of work-I did that and worked in the ER, up until, our second was born(resident salary and two children in daycare-not practical).
We really lived simple, it has paid off well. Less stuff=Less worry
He never got me flowers in the hospital with our first two kids, He was really busy and did not HAVE time to stop at the little hospital gift shop, which is conveniently located in the hospital!
He made up for it with our third, though. I call her our"post residency baby”. I was in the bathroom and I heard all this commotion in my hospital room, I came out and it looked like a florist-flowers, balloons, stuffed animals..tons. It was a great surprise, we could actually afford it-even better!
There is enough stress with residency, find ways to minimize other stress factors.
I let a lot of things roll off my shoulders, some may think I’m submissive, docile. Not the case, I am really supportive and encouraging, maybe a bit manipulative! I truly believe he would not be here with out me, sure he would be practicing neurosurgery, traveling, making frivolous purchases- but not with a grounded, well balanced home. A family to come home too, that loves him and misses him, most of all, appreciates him.
During residency it was our only goal to complete the program. I know, what it takes...because it took and kept taking!
We did this together! I have a chip on my shoulder for the spouses who slide in on the last year of residency. My Husband will tease me and say, “they are smarter than you!”
Looking back, we both agree we not have done anything differently.

The loneliness and sadness are manageable, it has personally made me a stronger person. I do, sometimes, wish I could relay on him. It’s not easy to raise three children, two dogs, and a cat by myself. The flip side is the quality of patient care he can provide has far exceeded any expectation I had. The clinical training he received has paid off, it’s so important to be able to manage your own patients care without relaying heavily on other services. At the end of the day, our irresponsibility is to provide quality patient care. At times, I am his PR person, neurosurgeons have a tendency to be a bit abrasive!

I am not an MD, I did work in Health-care for a few years. A few colleagues have 2 MD’s in the family. I do see them struggle a bit personally. My personal observation is one spouse tends to take on more of the load. When we were in residency we knew a couple, he was the same year as my Husband and she was trying to get into a neurology program-it did not work out well for either of them in the end. Unfortunately, I have not seen many couples who can balance 2 MD’s. I should, add I haven’t meet any-other couples like us.

I hope this is helpful, this is not the rest of your life-just a really long chapter.

Fondly,
Rebecca

Anonymous User - 18 January 2008 12:26 PM

What are your thoughts on your husband having mistresses? Cushing had his harem…

I have only one...alimony.

Anonymous User - 18 January 2008 03:36 PM

mhazzard - 18 January 2008 03:06 AM

One of my wife’s biggest qualms about me choosing NS as a career is that I won’t have time to have kids and a family life. While I know residency training will be time consuming, I’m convinced it is possible to maintain some balance. So I’m eager to hear, what worked for you? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks

I’m not the original poster--I’m another NS’s wife. We’ve been married since before med school (he’s now a resident), and we have a kid.

My husband is an amazing dad.  He spends as much time as he can with our son--frankly, more than I remember my dad spending with me on a regular basis when I was growing up, and my dad was a 9-5er.  I think it’s a matter of prioritization.  My husband knows he’s got to make the most of the free time he has, so he does.  Yeah, our kiddo doesn’t see him as much as kids with 9-5er dads, but we make a real point not to make my husband’s schedule seem “weird,” so that our kid doesn’t feel like he is somehow being deprived.  I also make it a point not to complain about my husband’s hours, so our son doesn’t feel like I resent his dad.  And we make adjustments: for example, our son goes to bed much later than kids his age (and sleeps later--we are usually rushing out the door in the morning), so that he stands a better chance of seeing his dad that day.  We live in an apartment, not a house with a yard, so we can live close to the hospital and reduce wasted commute time.  We sometimes go to the hospital to bring Dad dinner or to grab dinner together at the hospital.  You just make it work.  You have to be flexible--this ain’t gonna be “Leave It to Beaver,” so get over that notion quickly.  But it can be fun and funny, too: my kid announced to his teacher the other day that he had to get some “ibuprofen” because “his frontal lobe” hurt. 

Other than that, my thoughts, for whatever they’re are worth:

1.  Marry an independent woman.  I don’t mean emotionally independent (as in a cold fish)--I mean self-reliant.  She should not look to you to fulfill her every need and desire.  If her self-image is based on what you think of her at any given minute, and she needs you to endless assure her that she’s important and special, you’re sunk.  Even if you think it, you won’t have the time to convey it.  She should be the kind of woman that says, “Man, I am so sorry that you’ve got to miss the part tonight.  That sucks.  I’ll miss you and give you a page when I get home.” If she’s the kind of girl that will refuse to go to the party without you--or worse, go but spend the whole night bitching to her girlfriends about your hours--that’s a big problem, for both of you.

2.  Marry a woman who forgives easily and forgets even more quickly.  Seriously, you’re screwed if she’s the kind of girl who holds a grudge, because you are going to disappoint her in a lot of ways over the course of residency.

3.  Marry a woman who likes having sex with you, even when you haven’t said four words to her in three days and you’ve come home post-call horny but also greasy from scrub-hat hair.  And vaguely smelling of OR soap.

4.  Marry a woman who actually wants to be married to a NS.  This is different than a woman who wants to be able to tell everyone that her husband is a NS.  She should be on-aboard with the fact that your professional career will require many sacrifices by both of you. And with the fact that her sacrifices are going to be unglamorous and distinctly “unliberated"--she’ll do most of the housework, childrearing, etc.  If she’s going to get bent out of shape that you aren’t doing you’re “fair share” of the laundry, you’ll both be miserable.  And the laundry will mildew.

If you’re single, you can do NS by yourself.  If you’re married, you can’t.  It’s a team effort.  She should take pride in your dedication and sacrifices, not be relentlessly angry.  Her entire life should not revolve around the phrase “when you’re done with residency” because what that really means is “when our lives will be SO MUCH BETTER!!” But the fact is, to a large degree, it doesn’t get a lot better--you’ll never be a dermatologist who gets off at 4pm and never has an overnight emergency, while making $600K a year.  You may make more money after residency, but you’ll always work long hours and you’ll always ignore about half her pages.

5.  Marry a woman who prefers poverty over debt in the short-term.  If you can scrape by during residency, it will be worth it.  If she wants to be a “doctor’s wife” the second you get your MD framed, you’ll either have to go into debt (big debt) or she’ll be gravely disappointed.

Once you’ve married her…

Worship the ground she walks on.  Seriously.  Tell her, often, how incredible she is and how much you appreciate her.  Tell her how you couldn’t do it without her.  And make efforts to tangibly show this, too.  I’m not talking about gifts.  It’s little things--return her pages when you can.  Promptly, even if it’s just to say that you’re stuck in a case but you’ll give her a call when you’re scrubbed out.  Don’t snap at her like you snap at the nurses.  (She’s not your damn OR scrub girl.) Spend your free time with her, not on the golf course with your buddies.  Also, TALK TO HER about what you do.  Tell her about the glioblastoma or how you fell asleep while standing up in the OR or how you got your head ripped off by some as$hole attending.  She can’t know what you’re going through if you don’t talk to her about it.  Don’t forget to make her your partner in the whole experience, so she can know you better.

Just wondering...what year is your husband?

Anonymous User - 18 January 2008 05:17 PM

Anonymous User - 18 January 2008 03:36 PM

mhazzard - 18 January 2008 03:06 AM

One of my wife’s biggest qualms about me choosing NS as a career is that I won’t have time to have kids and a family life. While I know residency training will be time consuming, I’m convinced it is possible to maintain some balance. So I’m eager to hear, what worked for you? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks

I’m not the original poster--I’m another NS’s wife. We’ve been married since before med school (he’s now a resident), and we have a kid.

My husband is an amazing dad.  He spends as much time as he can with our son--frankly, more than I remember my dad spending with me on a regular basis when I was growing up, and my dad was a 9-5er.  I think it’s a matter of prioritization.  My husband knows he’s got to make the most of the free time he has, so he does.  Yeah, our kiddo doesn’t see him as much as kids with 9-5er dads, but we make a real point not to make my husband’s schedule seem “weird,” so that our kid doesn’t feel like he is somehow being deprived.  I also make it a point not to complain about my husband’s hours, so our son doesn’t feel like I resent his dad.  And we make adjustments: for example, our son goes to bed much later than kids his age (and sleeps later--we are usually rushing out the door in the morning), so that he stands a better chance of seeing his dad that day.  We live in an apartment, not a house with a yard, so we can live close to the hospital and reduce wasted commute time.  We sometimes go to the hospital to bring Dad dinner or to grab dinner together at the hospital.  You just make it work.  You have to be flexible--this ain’t gonna be “Leave It to Beaver,” so get over that notion quickly.  But it can be fun and funny, too: my kid announced to his teacher the other day that he had to get some “ibuprofen” because “his frontal lobe” hurt. 

Other than that, my thoughts, for whatever they’re are worth:

1.  Marry an independent woman.  I don’t mean emotionally independent (as in a cold fish)--I mean self-reliant.  She should not look to you to fulfill her every need and desire.  If her self-image is based on what you think of her at any given minute, and she needs you to endless assure her that she’s important and special, you’re sunk.  Even if you think it, you won’t have the time to convey it.  She should be the kind of woman that says, “Man, I am so sorry that you’ve got to miss the part tonight.  That sucks.  I’ll miss you and give you a page when I get home.” If she’s the kind of girl that will refuse to go to the party without you--or worse, go but spend the whole night bitching to her girlfriends about your hours--that’s a big problem, for both of you.

2.  Marry a woman who forgives easily and forgets even more quickly.  Seriously, you’re screwed if she’s the kind of girl who holds a grudge, because you are going to disappoint her in a lot of ways over the course of residency.

3.  Marry a woman who likes having sex with you, even when you haven’t said four words to her in three days and you’ve come home post-call horny but also greasy from scrub-hat hair.  And vaguely smelling of OR soap.

4.  Marry a woman who actually wants to be married to a NS.  This is different than a woman who wants to be able to tell everyone that her husband is a NS.  She should be on-aboard with the fact that your professional career will require many sacrifices by both of you. And with the fact that her sacrifices are going to be unglamorous and distinctly “unliberated"--she’ll do most of the housework, childrearing, etc.  If she’s going to get bent out of shape that you aren’t doing you’re “fair share” of the laundry, you’ll both be miserable.  And the laundry will mildew.

If you’re single, you can do NS by yourself.  If you’re married, you can’t.  It’s a team effort.  She should take pride in your dedication and sacrifices, not be relentlessly angry.  Her entire life should not revolve around the phrase “when you’re done with residency” because what that really means is “when our lives will be SO MUCH BETTER!!” But the fact is, to a large degree, it doesn’t get a lot better--you’ll never be a dermatologist who gets off at 4pm and never has an overnight emergency, while making $600K a year.  You may make more money after residency, but you’ll always work long hours and you’ll always ignore about half her pages.

5.  Marry a woman who prefers poverty over debt in the short-term.  If you can scrape by during residency, it will be worth it.  If she wants to be a “doctor’s wife” the second you get your MD framed, you’ll either have to go into debt (big debt) or she’ll be gravely disappointed.

Once you’ve married her…

Worship the ground she walks on.  Seriously.  Tell her, often, how incredible she is and how much you appreciate her.  Tell her how you couldn’t do it without her.  And make efforts to tangibly show this, too.  I’m not talking about gifts.  It’s little things--return her pages when you can.  Promptly, even if it’s just to say that you’re stuck in a case but you’ll give her a call when you’re scrubbed out.  Don’t snap at her like you snap at the nurses.  (She’s not your damn OR scrub girl.) Spend your free time with her, not on the golf course with your buddies.  Also, TALK TO HER about what you do.  Tell her about the glioblastoma or how you fell asleep while standing up in the OR or how you got your head ripped off by some as$hole attending.  She can’t know what you’re going through if you don’t talk to her about it.  Don’t forget to make her your partner in the whole experience, so she can know you better.

Just wondering...what year is your husband?

Mid-level resident.

For the spouses who posted on this page, thank you.  The aspects you addressed are probably the ones I am most concerned about (I’m still an MS3).  It’s nice hear how you were able to handle the struggles of residency.

Yes, thank you all so much. The information you provided is very helpful and encouraging to know that it can be done!