It’s like the pretty girl w/o a prom date......the guys that were interested automatically assumed that she had a date and never asked.

MCAT: 37
Medical School: MD/PhD program
Step I: 259
Step II CK: Didn’t take
Preclinical : H in basic sciences, HP in behavioral sciences
Third-year Clinical : Honors in medicine, psych and family med, HP in surg and peds, P in OB/GYN
Fourth-year Clinical : Honors for sub-Is.  Don’t care about the others.
Alpha Omega Alpha:  Yes
Research:  PhD with 1 first author and 1 co-first author pub
Programs applied to:
Interviews Offered: Didn’t count
Accepted interviews: 12
Ranked programs:  12
Match: #2

The numbers and the grades here seem relatively homogeneous, and I think the unsaid, KEY parameter is who is writing your letters and the true strength of the letters.  Letters can essentially fall into three categories.  1: Generic.  2: Strong, but still in a “generic” format.  3: Personalized and clearly written anew from the first to the last word.  I’ll bet someone with a 240 and a couple letters that are “3” from some well-known chairmen is significantly better off than a 260 with a bunch of “1s” and “2s” amassed on a slew of sub-Is.  I may very well be the blind leading the blind....but food for thought

Surgigal, your posts are incredibly inspiring to me and I am literally speechless. I know if it was me I would have probably lost it, but your clear sense of self and your amazing strength of character is something that I can try to achieve. From your posts alone, I would have been honored to have been co-residents with you and know that you will excel no matter what you choose in the end. While it may be a sad day for you, it is an even darker day and a true loss for the programs who didn’t take the time to truly discover who you are and it is them that missed out.

Anonymous User - 24 January 2008 07:33 PM

The numbers and the grades here seem relatively homogeneous

The board scores, seem really high and I think that may be due to the fact that those with higher scores are willing to post.  This may also be true for grades. The point is, I don’t think stundents with lower score should get discouraged.

ctsire - 25 January 2008 04:03 AM

Anonymous User - 24 January 2008 07:33 PM

The numbers and the grades here seem relatively homogeneous

The board scores, seem really high and I think that may be due to the fact that those with higher scores are willing to post.  This may also be true for grades. The point is, I don’t think stundents with lower score should get discouraged.

This is exactly why I took a deep breath and stuck my neck out there yesterday.  Those of you with 250+ scores, kudos!  Those of you who barely passed the boards, please, don’t feel that your info is any less important or wanted.  If you matched but had low scores, PLEASE let the truth be public so that good people in future classes can see that they are competitive!  For gosh sakes you matched in neurosurgery, what is to hide?

And if you didn’t match, please learn from what happened to me here...I publicly admitted the (let’s face it!) embarrassing truth that I did not match.  And NOBODY laughed at me.  Instead I received only the warmest support, both on and offline.  You should see the emails that have been arriving in my box at home, from the very people who only knew me thus far as their “competition!” The only downside is that I’m now slightly sadder that these people won’t be my co-residents come July.  In fact I wish I had a copy of my transcript at hand and I could show you more specific details about my grades; most of my preclinicals were just a “pass,” and I’ve even had two of those in the clinical years, but I got 33 invites out of 40 apps.

Not ashamed and you shouldn’t be either,
Jessica Buczek AMC’08

Medical School: State school

Step I: 229/93

Step II CK: not reported yet

Preclinical : mix of honors/high-pass and some pass

Third-year Clinical : almost all honors

Fourth-year Clinical : all honors

Alpha Omega Alpha: Yes

Research:  lots; many papers including first authors

Programs applied to: 29

Interviews Offered: 17

Accepted interviews: 13

Ranked programs:  12

Match: Matched

General Comments: Not coming from one of the big Ivory towers certainly puts one at a disadvantage in Neurosurgery, but I’m testament that it’s not impossible (even with not astoundingly great Step 1 scores). Congrats to everyone else who matched! And I hope those who didn’t match keep their dreams alive and keep on trying.

surgigal - 24 January 2008 02:02 PM

Interviews Offered: 33
Accepted interviews: 13
Ranked programs:  12
Match: No match.

Looking back, would you have accepted more interviews?
Also, it appears that you felt it would be better not to match than to match at one of the programs you interviewed at.  Would you please share which program this was and why you chose not to rank them?  Again, if you could turn back the clock would you now rank that program?

Thank you for your input.  Best wishes for your future.

Undergraduate: Michigan State University

Step I: 221/90 (yes that’s right, how many of you are thinking “how the **** did this person match?)
Step II CK: 243/(I forget the 2-digit)

Preclinical : mix of high-pass and pass (1 H)

Third-year Clinical : mostly HP, some passes, no H

Fourth-year Clinical : all H (because 4th year grades are a joke)

Alpha Omega Alpha: Of course not.

Research:  3 active projects, 1 published paper, 1 presented abstract

Programs applied to: 51

Interviews Offered: 33

Accepted interviews: 13

Ranked programs:  12

Match: Matched #2 (feel free to rain down with the “must’ve been a terrible program, I assure you it is anything but)

General Comments: I’m posting this to point out that if anyone THINKS they know a certain score cut-off they’re wrong.  Just take a look at my step one and my grades.  99% of y’all would come on here and tell me I had no shot.  This is what I figured out: If you have someone whose letter can help you, do everything you can to earn that letter.  I guarantee the support I had boosted my application.  Second, be relaxed on interviews.  No one wants to accept a robot (ok, not no one but many programs want people).  Third, I took a year off to increase my research experience.  That worked and it helped me get to know my department and demonstrate my willingness to work hard and learn. 

Point being, yes, it’s hard to match in neurosurgery.  Just because you have high board scores or high grades doesn’t mean you’re getting in.  It definitely means you have a good shot.  I will echo the thoughts of a previous poster: all that interviews are good for is getting to know the program and figuring out where you fit.  Likewise, they are evaluating you as a person.  Keep that in mind. 

Anyway, point being, according to most people I had no business matching.  I had good letters, decent research (but not much published), pedestrian step I scores, improved step 2.  If you want to go into Neurosurgery, work for it.  There are NO guarantees.

MCAT: 36
Undergrad: BYU, majored in neuroscience
Medical School: Public school (for what it’s worth, ranked well in both clinical and research in USnews)
Step I: 234
Step II CK: 235
Preclinical : H in almost everything
Third-year Clinical : H in most, HP in surgery (but with great recommendation), P in peds and OB
Fourth-year Clinical : H
Alpha Omega Alpha:  Yes
Research:  3 papers (including undergrad thesis), 3 separate abstracts, multiple grants and presentations, 1 case report pending, many projects in the neurosciences
Programs applied to: 45
Interviews Offered: 42 (40 plus 2 that I didn’t apply to)
Accepted interviews: 14
Ranked programs:  14
Match: #1

Anonymous User - 25 January 2008 06:23 AM

surgigal - 24 January 2008 02:02 PM

Interviews Offered: 33
Accepted interviews: 13
Ranked programs:  12
Match: No match.

Looking back, would you have accepted more interviews?
Also, it appears that you felt it would be better not to match than to match at one of the programs you interviewed at.  Would you please share which program this was and why you chose not to rank them?  Again, if you could turn back the clock would you now rank that program?

Thank you for your input.  Best wishes for your future.

This a great point.  There definitely may have been subjective or unfair things at play here surgigal....  However, just going by the objective data we have in hand- The 33 interviews offered, 13 accepted interviews difference (eg 20 programs that could have been interviewed at but were not) may have been the thing you could have changed that would have made a difference.  If some of those 20 were relatively less competitive schools, no question you could have ended up matching at one of them for sure.  Perhaps you biased your interviews to the “better” programs of the 33?  On the other hand, if those 20 interview offers not accepted were ones you would have rather not matched than gone to, then you made a good choice in not going to them.  Now certainly no one is advocating going on 33 interviews, but is it possible some of the 20 not interviewed at should have been included in retrospect?

-Finished residency last year

Dude, I’m sure she has already thought of this… she probably didn’t sleep last night thinking about it. But I guess it’s a good lesson in the randomness of this process. Unfortunately, if you want to be sure you match, it sounds like you have to spend thousands of dollars interviewing at places you don’t want to go.

Anonymous User - 25 January 2008 05:23 AM

General Comments: Not coming from one of the big Ivory towers certainly puts one at a disadvantage in Neurosurgery, but I’m testament that it’s not impossible (even with not astoundingly great Step 1 scores). Congrats to everyone else who matched! And I hope those who didn’t match keep their dreams alive and keep on trying.

I would disagree with this statement… from the match this year I think some excellent candidates from some non-ivy/non-private schools got into some excellent programs. Most programs (with a few exceptions) are more interested in people who will make good neurosurgeons and actually make their program elite, rather than people who will make the program SEEM elite, or at least it is trending more that way as people see through the smoke and mirrors.

this is by no means meant to be mean, rude, etc.  just stating the truth.

just remember, some people are “weird” or “interesting” or “odd” even when they don’t realize they are.  Some people who have posted here who didn’t match meet this criteria, and I suspect this is the reason they didn’t match.

you can’t go by the numbers shown on these threads, except to see that as long as you’ve shown effort, improvement and put in the time, dedication and are NORMAL you can match. Again, this sounds mean, but its true (I know), and I’m just putting it up here for everyone’s benefit so they get a full picture.

Anonymous User - 25 January 2008 06:23 AM

Looking back, would you have accepted more interviews?
Also, it appears that you felt it would be better not to match than to match at one of the programs you interviewed at.  Would you please share which program this was and why you chose not to rank them?  Again, if you could turn back the clock would you now rank that program?

Thank you for your input.  Best wishes for your future.

Would I do more interviews?  Well, sure, of course - but hindsight is 20/20 right?  At the same time with 13 interviews, calls from chairmen expressing interest, second look invites and more, I wasn’t thinking that I had cut things dangerously close.  One really excellent program even brought my husband up and arranged for him to have job interviews in his field at the nearby university, in order to help us feel comfortable with the possibility of matching there.  I guess the lesson is that you really can NEVER be safe, and if you have the energy to squeeze in just one more interview, do it! 

I am now scheduled to interview for a vacancy which appeared at one of those 20 schools I originally didn’t choose to prioritize.  It’s a great program, and I’m grateful to have been re-invited under these new circumstances.

There was one program (will not be named, I’m sorry) that I did not feel was a cultural fit for me personally.  And no, I would not rank that program if I could go back and do it.  The strategy I worked with during interviews was, “Match, but not at the cost of predictable unhappiness.” I don’t think it would benefit me to change that now.

Hope that’s helpful…