Hey guys… I have read on this forum that the letters you get from the sub-i’s must be from the chair of each department…
Forgive my ignorance.. maybe this will sound a bit naive… but how do you get the letters from people you most probably don’t even see.... I have recently had a rotation (not ns) during which i think i did a good job.. in the end i asked my attendant for a letter and he politely wrote me a pretty good letter… Nevertheless i never even got to see the chair physically except from the grand rounds with another ~200 people..so it didn’t seem logical to ask hm for a letter.I mean do you actually knock on their door and say that you want to “be with them” in some way?...(clinic/OR)?...these people most of the time have so many administrative responsibilities that don’t pretty much do anything else . I read in a thread on this forum that they will ask the people you worked with to tell them about you…
Most of the rotations are structured in a way that you will be at 3~4 places during that month...I suppose who they will actually ask is not so obvious...meaning that even by trying your best with everybody… someone has to pursue his luck a bit right?? how do you actually aim in spending some time with the person that will provide the information about you?
doesn’t asking “to be with the boss” sound too narcissistic/"who do you think you are kind of thing”?
how exactly is the “getting the strong LOR” strategy tailored apart from being good at your job?
Don’t worry. I used to worry about the same thing. Here’s what happened in my case.
I rotated at one of the top programs in the country. I had absolutely zero interaction with the chairman during my entire subinternship. In fact I was told to avoid any interactions with him as much as possible. Two days before the end of my subinternship I asked his secretary if I could meet with him to ask for a letter. She said that I was lucky because normally I would have to schedule the appointment a month in advance but that someone had just cancelled a meeting with him that day. She told me to come back in 15 minutes. I came back and met with the chairman for 5 minutes during which time he asked me how things were going and if I was getting along well with the residents. I asked him if he could write me a letter and he said yes. The next day I got an email from the secretary telling me that my letter was ready.
I found out during the interview trail that he wrote me a really awesome letter because one of my interviewers read me parts of it. It was just one paragraph but it was really good. I’m sure the chairman checked in with a few residents to see how I did.
At another away subinternship I interacted with the chairman only one day during his clinic. He barely spoke to me the entire day. I never got a chance to meet with him to ask him directly because he was out of town most of the time. So, I asked him via email. His secretary got back to me within one week telling me my letter was ready. It was also only one paragraph long but again someone read it to me on the trail and it was really good. I heard that this chairman will often sit down with the residents during a monthly meeting and ask how the subinterns did.
I guess the important thing to learn from this is that you don’t have to know these guys very long to get good letters from them. They have been doing this for a very long time and are really good at figuring people out and at writing good letters very quickly. Also, in retrospect I should have made the appointments earlier (even though I got lucky with the timing).
Also, when it comes time to send those letters out to all your programs here’s what you do. Do NOT have the secretary mail out 15-20 copies of the letter individually! That is so old school. Just ask nicely if they would scan the letter into their computer. Give them a list of the contact email addresses for all your programs and have them email the scanned letter to all of them in one single email. It saves the secretary and yourself a LOT of time and trouble. All the programs I applied to got the emails with the scanned letters. One school did not give me an email address and I had the letters faxed to just that one school.
You can very easily get operating and clinic time with the chair. Just ask the residents for his schedule and show up for his cases. You should not have any problem with this; everyone expects you to spend time with the chair. Furthermore, you do not have to always get a LOR from the chair. Although it is usually preferred, sometimes certain chairmen are not that well liked and a letter from them may not be your best choice. Don’t over think it; just work hard and be your normal charming self.
Also, when it comes time to send those letters out to all your programs here’s what you do. Do NOT have the secretary mail out 15-20 copies of the letter individually! That is so old school. Just ask nicely if they would scan the letter into their computer. Give them a list of the contact email addresses for all your programs and have them email the scanned letter to all of them in one single email. It saves the secretary and yourself a LOT of time and trouble. All the programs I applied to got the emails with the scanned letters. One school did not give me an email address and I had the letters faxed to just that one school.
Thanks for the great advice. In this case, to who’s email address are we sending out the scanned LORs? A secretary of the department? Chair? PD? All three? Thanks for the advice.
Also, when it comes time to send those letters out to all your programs here’s what you do. Do NOT have the secretary mail out 15-20 copies of the letter individually! That is so old school. Just ask nicely if they would scan the letter into their computer. Give them a list of the contact email addresses for all your programs and have them email the scanned letter to all of them in one single email. It saves the secretary and yourself a LOT of time and trouble. All the programs I applied to got the emails with the scanned letters. One school did not give me an email address and I had the letters faxed to just that one school.
I respectfully disagree with this on several points. First, if you get them early enough, you should include some of these letters in your ERAS application, which obviates the need to send them individually. (And ERAS allows four letters where SF Matched allowed only three.) Second, even if you get them too late for ERAS, sending them to the program coordinator doesn’t mean anyone will ever see them. I had the secretary send the letter to my home school, which put it in my file and then mailed/faxed/emailed the letter to programs a week before the interview. (Make your home school do the work - that’s why you are paying them tuition.) Few programs ever had the letters. A couple asked me in the interviews themselves, “do you have a letter from so-and-so sub-i?” and I said I got the letter after the SF Match app was complete so I had my school send it to the program coordinator. Which usually elicited a query to the program coordinator who said, “oh, I think I did get that, let me check.” And of course it was not in front of the chairman during the interview. After this happened on my first two interviews, I had my home school prepare copies of the letters and give them to me in sealed envelopes, which I handed to the chairman or PD (or both) during the interview. That worked pretty well. Just my opinion.
And on the “how do you get to know the chair?” question, I agree with ctsire - go to his clinic and the OR! There may be cases where the chairman is not the friendliest person, but you should always check with the residents. Set up an end-of-rotation meeting if you can - that way if you made yourself known during the rotation, you can do a nice wrap-up, thank him for the opportunity, and ask for the letter.
Also, when it comes time to send those letters out to all your programs here’s what you do. Do NOT have the secretary mail out 15-20 copies of the letter individually! That is so old school. Just ask nicely if they would scan the letter into their computer. Give them a list of the contact email addresses for all your programs and have them email the scanned letter to all of them in one single email. It saves the secretary and yourself a LOT of time and trouble. All the programs I applied to got the emails with the scanned letters. One school did not give me an email address and I had the letters faxed to just that one school.
Thanks for the great advice. In this case, to who’s email address are we sending out the scanned LORs? A secretary of the department? Chair? PD? All three? Thanks for the advice.
I had them sent to whatever email address the interview invitation came from.
I respectfully disagree with this on several points. First, if you get them early enough, you should include some of these letters in your ERAS application, which obviates the need to send them individually. (And ERAS allows four letters where SF Matched allowed only three.) Second, even if you get them too late for ERAS, sending them to the program coordinator doesn’t mean anyone will ever see them. I had the secretary send the letter to my home school, which put it in my file and then mailed/faxed/emailed the letter to programs a week before the interview. (Make your home school do the work - that’s why you are paying them tuition.) Few programs ever had the letters. A couple asked me in the interviews themselves, “do you have a letter from so-and-so sub-i?” and I said I got the letter after the SF Match app was complete so I had my school send it to the program coordinator. Which usually elicited a query to the program coordinator who said, “oh, I think I did get that, let me check.” And of course it was not in front of the chairman during the interview. After this happened on my first two interviews, I had my home school prepare copies of the letters and give them to me in sealed envelopes, which I handed to the chairman or PD (or both) during the interview. That worked pretty well. Just my opinion.
Hmm my school doesn’t offer any kind of letter service. In my case emailing the letters worked fine and was very efficient. All the away letters ended up in my file during all my interviews. I didn’t have my letters emailed to the PD but rather to the secretary that sent me the interview offer. Also, my away letters were elicited after my CAS was already distributed.
Quick question...since ERAS will accept 4 LOR and I am likely to do one Sub-I before I apply, do you think it is overkill to have 3 letters from your home department? I may try to do a 2nd sub-I, if there is time and I could use neuroblast’s method to send out a LOR late.
Quick question...since ERAS will accept 4 LOR and I am likely to do one Sub-I before I apply, do you think it is overkill to have 3 letters from your home department? I may try to do a 2nd sub-I, if there is time and I could use neuroblast’s method to send out a LOR late.
Are you MD-PhD? If so I would say get one LOR from your research advisor. After all was said and done I had a total of 6 letters in my final file broken down as follows:
#1 = home chairman (about a paragraph)
#2 = home attending neurosurgeon (page and a half)
#3 = phd advisor (over two pages)
#4 = first outside subinternship chairman (paragraph)
#5 = second outside subinternship chairman (paragraph)
#6 = dean’s letter (more than 3 pages)
My initial CAS application included letters #1, 2 and 3 (sent out by October 1st)
I sent out #4 and #5 as outlined previously (both sent out by about the first week of November)
#6 was the last to be sent out automatically by my school some time later in November.
Note: I interviewed at only one school in October so they only had letters 1, 2 and 3 at the time of the interview. The bulk of the interviews were in November and December with a couple in January. By my 3rd interview in November most schools had letters 1 through 5. Don’t worry about the dean’s letter as it is out of your hands and sent automatically by your school whenever they decide to send it.
One question I was wondering about was when do you guys plan on submitting your application for ERAS? According to the website, the date when we can first start applying to programs is September 1st. As I currently have my schedule arranged right now, I don’t think I will be able to get 4 good LOR from neurosurgeons at that point (probably only 2-3 from neurosurgeons). I should be able to get 4 letters if I submit my application at the end of September.
The other thing I was wondering about was how many programs you plan on applying to. I was checking the website and applying to 40 programs will cost $1000, while applying to 30 will cost $450 ($15 per program for 21-30 applications compared to $25 per program for 31+ applications). I currently have about 44 that I have listed so far and am debating whether I should shave off 14 of them.
One question I was wondering about was when do you guys plan on submitting your application for ERAS? According to the website, the date when we can first start applying to programs is September 1st. As I currently have my schedule arranged right now, I don’t think I will be able to get 4 good LOR from neurosurgeons at that point (probably only 2-3 from neurosurgeons). I should be able to get 4 letters if I submit my application at the end of September.
The other thing I was wondering about was how many programs you plan on applying to. I was checking the website and applying to 40 programs will cost $1000, while applying to 30 will cost $450 ($15 per program for 21-30 applications compared to $25 per program for 31+ applications). I currently have about 44 that I have listed so far and am debating whether I should shave off 14 of them.
injinjay,
Have you asked your chairman how many programs he would recommend you apply to based on how competitive of an applicant you are? I ran this by my chairman (asked point blank) and he was very willing to advise me on how many I should apply to.
Probably doing a two-week rotation as a second away rotation, due to time crunch this fall. Is it reasonable to get a letter from the chair if you were only there two weeks? I would expect so, but couldn’t find if anyone else had done this. It’d be an “extra” (my fifth) letter.
